Using AI and a dictionary, let’s try out the translation approach from my last post on a further chapter of this modern Greek translation of the Life of St Nicholas by Methodius. Here’s the text, hopefully with few OCR errors:
4. Διηγήθηκα, λοιπόν, σύντομα τούτο το γεγονός, αν και ήταν περιττό, προκειμένου να μπολιάσω στις ψυχές το θείο φόβο, για να θυμούμαστε με φόβο την απειλή (εν. του θεού) πως: “δεν θα παραμείνει πλέον το πνεύμα μου στους ανθρώπους τούτους, διότι κυριαρχούνται εξ ολοκλήρου από σαρκικά φρονήματα”17 και έτσι να γλιτώσουμε απ’ αυτήν. Κι ευθύς αμέσως ορίστηκε ένα μικρό χρονικό διάστημα πριν την καταστροφή. Είπε, δηλαδή: όλες οι υπολειπόμενες μέρες της ζωής τους θα περιορισθούν μόνο σε εκατόν είκοσι ετη”18. Και συμπλήρωσε: “κραυγές πολλές ανέρχονται από τα Σοδομα και τη Γομόρρα προς εμέ• οι αμαρτίες τους είναι πάρα πολύ μεγάλες. Θα κατεβώ, λοιπόν, εκεί, για να δω, αν πράγματι οι αμαρτίες τους είναι όπως οι κραυγές που ανέρχονται προς εμέ ή όχι. Οπωσδήποτε θέλω να μάθω!”19. Πράγματι, εξ αρχής η σαρκολατρεία20 προκάλεσε και επέφερε τον παγκόσμιο κατακλυσμό και την πυρπόληση της Πεντάπολης21, όπως και τη μόλις διηγηθείσα θεϊκή τιμωρία (των Πατάρων). Για το λόγο αυτό ας διαφυλάττει ο καθένας το σώμα του ως σκεύος αγιασμού’2. Δεν ανήκουμε στον εαυτό μας, όπως έντονα διακήρυττε ο μέγας Παύλος, αυτός που διαρκώς ικέτευε τον θεό και παρακαλούσε συνεχώς τον Χριστό, γιατί έχουμε εξαγορασθεί με πολύτιμο τίμημα, το αίμα του Χριστού. Γι’ αυτό και οφείλουμε να δοξάσουμε τον θεό με το σώμα μας, χωρίς να το μολύνουμε• γιατί είναι ναός του Αγίου Πνεύματος που κατοικεί μέσα μας, και το οποίο έχουμε λάβει από τον θεό23. Προχωρώ, λοιπόν, μετά την υπόμνηση των παραπάνω στη διήγηση, και ολόγος μου θα έχει ως εξής:
Next, the pre-AI Google Translate output:
4. Therefore, I briefly related this event, although it was unnecessary, in order to instill in souls the divine fear, so that we remember with fear the threat (of God) that: “my spirit will no longer remain among men these, because they are completely dominated by carnal thoughts”17 and thus escape from it. And right away a short period of time was set before the disaster. He said, in other words: all the remaining days of their lives will be limited to only one hundred and twenty years.”18 And he added: “many cries go up from Sodom and Gomorrah to me; their sins are very great. I will therefore come down there, to see whether their sins are really like the cries that come up to me or not. I certainly want to know!”19 Indeed, from the beginning flesh worship20 caused and brought about the global flood and the burning of the Pentapolis21, just as the just-narrated divine punishment (of the Patras). For this reason let each one guard his body as a vessel of sanctification’2. We do not belong to ourselves, as the great Paul strongly proclaimed, he who constantly begged God and constantly begged him Christ, for we have been redeemed with a precious price, the blood of Christ. Therefore we ought to glorify God with our body, without defiling it; for it is a temple of the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, and which we have received from the god23. So, after reminding the above, I proceed to the narration, and my thesis will be as follows:
Now time for AI. I asked “Can you translate something for me from modern Greek into English.” The ChatGPT 3.5 output using a free account:
The narrator recounted, therefore, briefly this event, although it was unnecessary, in order to instill divine fear into the souls, so that we may remember with fear the threat (of God) that: “My spirit will no longer remain among these people, for they are entirely dominated by carnal thoughts”17 and thus to be saved from it. And immediately a small period before the destruction was appointed. He said, namely: “all the remaining days of their lives will be limited to one hundred twenty years”18. And he added, “Many cries rise from Sodom and Gomorrah to me; their sins are very great. So I will go down there to see if their sins are as the cries that rise to me or not. I definitely want to know!”19. Indeed, from the beginning, idolatry20 provoked and brought about the worldwide flood and the destruction of Pentapolis21, as well as the divine punishment (of the Patari). For this reason, let everyone preserve his body as a vessel of sanctification. We do not belong to ourselves, as the great Paul strongly proclaimed, he who constantly implored God and continually besought Christ, because we have been redeemed with a precious ransom, the blood of Christ. Therefore, we must glorify God with our bodies without defiling them, for it is the temple of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us, which we have received from God23. I proceed, therefore, after the reminder of the above in the narrative, and my discourse will be as follows:
That seemed a bit odd, so I tried again:
So, I recounted this event briefly, even though it was unnecessary, in order to instill divine fear into the souls, so that we may remember with fear the threat (of God) that: ‘My spirit will no longer remain among these people, for they are entirely dominated by carnal thoughts’17 and thus to be saved from it. And immediately, a short period before the destruction was appointed. He said, namely: ‘all the remaining days of their lives will be limited to only one hundred twenty years’18. And he added: ‘Many cries rise from Sodom and Gomorrah to me; their sins are very great. So I will go down there to see if their sins are as the cries that rise to me or not. I definitely want to know!’19. Indeed, from the beginning, idolatry20 provoked and brought about the worldwide flood and the destruction of Pentapolis21, as well as the divine punishment (of the Patari). For this reason, let everyone preserve his body as a vessel of sanctification. We do not belong to ourselves, as the great Paul strongly proclaimed, he who constantly implored God and continually besought Christ because we have been redeemed with a precious ransom, the blood of Christ. Therefore, we must glorify God with our bodies without defiling them, for it is the temple of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us, which we have received from God23. I proceed, therefore, after the reminder of the above in the narrative, and my discourse will be as follows:
Now Bing CoPilot:
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4. So I briefly narrated this event, although it was unnecessary, in order to instill divine fear in our souls, so that we may remember the threat (of God) that “my spirit will no longer remain with these people, because they are entirely dominated by carnal thoughts”17 and thus save ourselves from it. And immediately a small period of time was set before the destruction. He said, that is: all the remaining days of their lives will be limited to only one hundred and twenty years”18. And he added: “Many cries are coming from Sodom and Gomorrah to me; their sins are very great. So I will go down there to see if their sins are like the cries that are coming to me or not. I definitely want to know!”19. Indeed, from the beginning, idolatry20 caused and brought about the worldwide flood and the burning of Pentapolis21, as well as the divine punishment (of the Patari). For this reason, let everyone preserve his body as a vessel of sanctification’2. We do not belong to ourselves, as the great Paul strongly declared, he who constantly implored God and continuously prayed to Christ, because we have been redeemed with a precious price, the blood of Christ. Therefore, we must glorify God with our body, without defiling it; because it is the temple of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us, and which we have received from God23. So, after the above reminder, I proceed with the narrative, and my speech will be as follows:
Well, this chapter is studded with quotations from scripture, so that skews things a bit. One would expect scripture to be handled OK by pretty much any system.
Now again there are odd words. σαρκολατρεία is rendered as “flesh worship” by Google Translate, and “idolatry” by AI. WordReference.com doesn’t know the word. Hum.
But what strikes me most here is that I need to compare closely the various different versions of text and translation. Doing it on a paragraph is cumbersome. I need to split the text into sentences, and interleave the various versions.
It’s also rather cumbersome using the websites to access ChatGPT. There is a command-line interface.
I need to upgrade my tools before I do any more on this.
Since I have a ChatGPT subscription, here is what GPT-4 translated. I also asked it to point out any uncertainties and list any corrections to the OCR. I also asked GPT-4 to compare your 4 listed translations with the one you gave. Here is what it replied.
Translation:
I have thus briefly recounted this event, though it was unnecessary, in order to instill divine fear into our souls. We must remember with fear the divine threat that “my spirit shall no longer remain in these humans, for they are entirely dominated by carnal thoughts” (17) and thus save ourselves from it. A short period was immediately set before the destruction. It was stated: “All their remaining days shall be limited to only one hundred and twenty years” (18). And it was added: “Many cries rise up from Sodom and Gomorrah to me; their sins are exceedingly great. I will go down there, then, to see if their sins are as the cries that rise up to me or not. I definitely want to know!” (19). Indeed, from the beginning, flesh worship (20) caused and brought about the global flood and the burning of the Pentapolis (21), as well as the divine punishment of the Patara just narrated. For this reason, let each one keep his body as a vessel of sanctification (22). We do not belong to ourselves, as the great Paul fervently proclaimed, who constantly supplicated God and continuously implored Christ, for we have been bought with a precious price, the blood of Christ. Therefore, we owe it to glorify God with our body, without defiling it; for it is the temple of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, which we have received from God (23). I proceed, therefore, after reminding the above in the narration, and my speech will be as follows:
Uncertainties and Potential Interpretations:
“Carnal thoughts” (σαρκικά φρονήματα): This could also be interpreted as “fleshly desires” or “earthly inclinations”.
“Flesh worship” (σαρκολατρεία): This term is unusual and might refer to idolatry of the flesh, excessive focus on bodily desires, or literal worship of flesh.
“Pentapolis” (Πεντάπολης): Typically refers to a group of five cities, but the exact reference here is unclear.
“Patara” (Πατάρων): This could be a specific reference to an ancient city or a group of people, but its exact meaning in this context is uncertain.
Corrections:
The original text seems to be accurately OCR’d with no apparent errors in transcription. However, without the original document for comparison, it’s difficult to confirm the accuracy of the OCR completely.
Comparison of the Translations:
Translation A vs. My Translation
Use of “men” vs. “humans”: Translation A uses “men” where I used “humans.” “Humans” is more inclusive and aligns better with contemporary language norms.
“Carnal thoughts” vs. “fleshly desires/earthly inclinations”: Both translations capture the essence, but mine provides alternative interpretations, reflecting the complexity of ancient Greek.
“Flesh worship” vs. “idolatry”: Translation A retains the term “flesh worship,” while other translations use “idolatry.” “Flesh worship” is more literal but less common in English, possibly causing confusion.
“Patras” vs. “Patara”: Translation A uses “Patras,” which could be a typo or different interpretation. My translation uses “Patara,” but notes the uncertainty in the term.
Consistency and Clarity: Both translations are consistent, but mine provides additional context for uncertain terms.
Translation B vs. My Translation
“Idolatry” vs. “flesh worship”: Translation B uses “idolatry,” a more conventional term, but potentially less faithful to the original’s literal meaning.
“Patari” vs. “Patara”: Translation B uses “Patari,” differing from my “Patara.” This reflects a possible variation in interpreting the original term.
Overall Language Style: Translation B is fluid and clear, but may lose some of the original’s nuance by opting for more standard English expressions.
Translation C vs. My Translation
Similarity in Choices: Translation C largely mirrors the choices made in Translation B, including the use of “idolatry” and “Patari.”
Language and Style: Like B, Translation C is fluid and clear, making similar trade-offs between literal translation and readability.
Translation D vs. My Translation
“Idolatry” and “Patari”: Again, similar to B and C, with “idolatry” and “Patari.”
“Constantly implored God and continuously prayed to Christ”: Translation D adds “prayed to Christ,” which offers a slightly different nuance than the other translations, including mine.
Overall Assessment: Translation D, like the others, balances readability and faithfulness to the original, but with its unique nuances in certain phrases.
General Observations:
Faithfulness vs. Readability: My translation attempts to stay closer to the original text’s literal meaning, while others opt for more fluid, contemporary language.
Interpretations of Key Terms: Variations in terms like “idolatry” vs. “flesh worship” and “Patara” vs. “Patari/Patras” demonstrate the challenges in translating ancient texts.
Inclusivity: My use of “humans” reflects a more inclusive approach compared to the gender-specific “men” in some translations.
Each translation has its merits, with trade-offs between literal accuracy, readability, and modern language conventions. The choice of translation often depends on the intended audience and purpose of the translation.
Lampe also does not list the noun σαρκολατρεία (worship of the flesh) though it’s obviously a post-classical Christian word. Gregory Nanzianzus uses the noun αρκολάτρης. Because it’s I don’t think you can really translate it into standard English. because it’s a neologism. It’s “Trumpization.” Ἀνθρωπολάτρης, human-thief, is similar.
Lampe, G.W.H., A Patrisitic Greek Lexicon. Oxford UP, 1961. σαρκολάτρης, ὁ, worshipper of the flesh, used against Apollinarius in reply to the charge of being ἀνθρωπολάτρης, Gr. Naz. ep. 101(M. 37.185C); id. carm. 2.1.30.87(1293A).
@Scott Fleischman: thank you so much for this. Interesting to see! (Hate that it intruded politics tho).
@Douglas: Lampe is a good thought. It’s not clear whether idolatry or lust is intended here, I think. As you rightly say, a fake-word, perhaps best translated literally in its two parts and footnoted.
@Scott, what was your request wording?
The Google translation is pretty good. The issues you are having is that we are dealing with rare words and idiosyncrasies of Greek. Also, the word ανθρωπος which is typically used in Greek has, up to the 20th century, been often translated into English as Man instead of Human, which is the proper translation. Greek is more gender neutral that English. Aristotle said Πάντες ἄνθρωποι τοῦ εἰδέναι ὀρέγονται φύσει which is literally translated as All people/humans want to know by their nature. The most common translation of this quotation is Men by nature want to know, which is wrong because Aristotle said ανθρωποι, not ανδρες. I am pretty sure that there are Greek to Greek dictionaries for patristics, but I am not sure for Greek to another language. Σαρκολαγνεία, especially in this context, is not a hard word for a native Greek speaker to understand. Good translation into English though most likely does not exist. At this point I would look at the ancient Greek and see what is the specific word used.
σαρκολατρεία: the original actually reads σαρκομανία (Anrich p. 548 l. 10), the same word as in the previous passage, so it should be translated the same. The modern Greek text may have chosen to translate σαρκολαγνεία and then σαρκολατρεία just for the sake of variety. I still think it means “lust, sensuality”.
All of these translations are giving something good.
@Diego, I’m wondering whether I should simply try using AI on the original Greek.
@Diego: do you have the original Greek in a file? Or did you just type up that chapter? I couldn’t work out whether it was in the TLG or not.
I got the transcription from the Google Books OCR. I don’t think the text is in the TLG: according to the TLG Canon, there is a section #5067 “Vita et miracula Nicolai Myrensis” which contains many texts from Anrich’s edition but not this one. It’s not under (Pseudo-)Methodius either.
I just saw your new post with the next chapter and noticed that the AI fixed some OCR errors like δψομαι for ὄψομαι “I will see”. But in that case it was probably simply because that is a known sentence from the Septuaginta. The real test will be the narrative parts with original text.
I’d definitely include an AI translation of the modern Greek text in the list. Maybe replacing Google Translate?
Thank you! I couldn’t get the TLG canon to display.
I didn’t spend a lot of time on the OCR – just wanted to see what happens.
But yes I agree about including some of the output from the modern Greek version. I’ve just discovered the unix “paste” command, to interleave files, so there’s no reason not to have more.
Re: anthropos, English “man” was originally mann, human, as opposed to guma, male human, and wifman, female human. Man in the collective or mankind is still supposed to mean humans, humanity.
Ironically, feminist readings of English have greatly reduced the use of the gender-neutral terms “man” and “mankind”.
Guma has disappeared from English except in the terms “groom” and “bridegroom”, which suggests the erasure of specifically male experience.
I am deeply opposed to all these politically motivated attempts to corrupt the English language, and rather annoyed that our well-paid rulers make no effort to defend us from these evil people.