Tag: Methodius ad Theodorum

Sometimes the only way forward is to plunge in, and see what happens.  So I have taken the modern Greek translation of Methodius ad Theodorum by Ch. Stergioulis, and machine-translated it into English.  The results are attached, together with Stergioulis original, which has the ancient Greek facing the modern Greek, and footnotes at the end.

The ancient Greek original is preserved in a single Vatican manuscript, which gave the editor, G. Anrich, a lot of problems – so much so that he printed it in volume 1 of his Agios Nikolaos, and then printed a transcription of the manuscript in vol. 2, with corrections.  Some of his footnotes in vol. 1 betray bafflement; and so do some of Stergioulis’ footnotes!  Words otherwise unknown, I gather.  It’s clear that the text is corrupt.

I scanned Stergioulis’ translation into a Word document (attached).  Then for each chapter I did the following:

1. Run the Greek through Google Translate and paste it into a Word document.
2. Send a request to Bard AI, “please translate this from modern Greek into English, with notes”, followed by the Greek.  The notes were usually useless, but sometimes not.
3. Send a request to ChatGPT 3.5, “please translate this from modern Greek into English” (this wouldn’t give notes), followed by the Greek.
4. Manually modify the Google Translate output in the Word document using the output from the two AI websites.  Where all three agreed, this was no problem, and it was just a case of choosing the most pleasant version.  Where one disagreed, I looked a bit harder at it.  Where all three disagreed, I started looking up some key words in Greek dictionaries, and looked at the footnotes.  There was  in fact only one sentence, in chapter 10, where the meaning of a clause -“και φοβούμενος το λιχνιστήρι34 αυτής της ανθρωπαρέσκειας για την απόκτηση αγαθών – was completely unclear, and I got there in the end.

This was usually straightforward, not least because the chapters were small.

For a couple of chapters Bard AI threw a wobbly.  Instead of outputting a translation, it started to spew a message in Greek, basically saying “I am an AI model, I don’t know how to do that.”  It seems that it was ignoring the English part of my request string, thought that I was writing in Greek, and so it treated the Greek passage as itself a request to do something, not as something to translate.  I found that replying with “Could you translate that request from modern Greek into English?” did the trick, and caused it to translate instead.

Anyway, here is the output from this process.

• Stergioulis-Greek (PDF, 32mb)
• Stergioulis-Greek-OCR (Word .docx of the modern Greek text)
• Stergioulis-translation (Word .docx)
• Stergioulis-translation (the same, in PDF form)

The translation is readable enough.  I’m not sure how accurate it is – any comments, anyone?

UPDATE: final version here.

In the last post, we tried out various AI tools to translate the modern Greek version of Methodius ad Theodorum into English.  But in the previous post commenter Diego had considerable success doing the same with the original medieval Greek of chapter 3!  So I thought it might be interesting to see what might be done with the medieval Greek of chapter 4.

So I scanned the text using Abbyy Finereader Pro 15 – which treated it as modern Greek, and mangled the accents – and then ran it through (A) Bard AI, (B) ChatGPT 3.5, (C) Google Translate.  I had to split the sentences somewhat, and this wasn’t preserved in the AI translations, so I manually adjusted it.

Here’s the output:

4. Ἀλλά τούτο, εί καὶ παρέλκον, πλήν εις έγκεντρισμον θείου φόβου διηγήσασθαι συνεώρακα, ϊνα μνησθώμεν καὶ φοβηθέντες έκφύγωμεν τήν λέγουσαν απειλήν
A: But even though this is a digression, I have considered telling it for the sake of instilling the fear of God, so that we may remember and, being afraid, flee the threat that says,
B: “However, I have observed that even though it may be enticing, except for the purpose of instilling a divine fear, I narrate it simultaneously, so that we may remember and, being afraid, escape the threatening voice that says,
C: 4. But this, too, is irrelevant, except in the concentration of divine fear, as you tell us, we pray and, being afraid, flee from the so-called threat

«οὐ μὴ καταμείνη τό πνεύμά μου έν τοϊς άνθρώποις τούτοις διά τὸ είναι αυτούς σάρκας».
A: “My Spirit will not remain in these people because they are flesh.”
B: ‘My spirit will not remain among these people because they are flesh.’
C: “Do not let my spirit dwell in these people because they are flesh”.

είτα ευθύς ή σμικρότης τών ήμερων έπετιμήθη· φησίν γάρ·
A: Then immediately the shortness of the days was rebuked; for it says,
B: Then, immediately, the brevity of their days was reproved; for it says,
C: Behold the straightness or the smallness of the meek is despised;

«έσονται δέ αἱ ήμέραι αύτών ἑκατὸν είκοσι έτη»
A: “Their days will be one hundred and twenty years,”
B: ‘Their days will be one hundred and twenty years,’
C: “And the days of these are a hundred and twenty years”

, και πάλιν·
A: and again,
B: and again,
C: , and again;

«κραυγή Σοδόμων και Γομόρρας άνέβη πρός με· καταβάς οϋν δψομαι, εί κατά τήν κραυγήν αύτών συντελοϋνται· εἰ δὲ μή, ‘ίνα γνω».
A: “The cry of Sodom and Gomorrah has ascended to me; therefore I will go down and see whether they are acting according to their cry; if not, I will know.”
B: ‘The outcry of Sodom and Gomorrah has come up to me. I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me; if not, I will know.’
C: “the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah went up to me; if I go down, I see, according to their cry they are done; but if not, let me know.”

και γάρ έξ άρχής σαρκομανία καὶ τον παγκόσμιον κατακλυσμόν καὶ τόν Πενταπόλεως έμπρησμὸν έφειλκύσατο, ο’ια καὶ νΰν τήν διηγηθεϊσαν θεηλασίαν.
A: For indeed from the beginning, carnality has brought about the worldwide flood and the burning of Pentapolis, and so now the theophany that has been described.
B: For from the beginning, he drew upon himself carnal indulgence, the worldwide deluge, and the burning of the Pentapolis, just as now he has brought upon himself the divine wrath that I have narrated.
C: and since from the beginning sarcomania and the universal cataclysm and the Pentapolis fire were spared, which they did not tell the story of.

δι’ ὸ έν άγιασμώ τό εαυτού σκεύος έκαστος κτησώμεθα· ούκ έσμέν γάρ εαυτών, ώς ό παρακλήτωρ θεού καὶ ύπερπρεσβενων Χριστού Παύλος ό ύιβηλός κέκραγεν, έπειδή τιμῆς ήγοράσΟημεν.
A: Therefore, let each of us acquire his own vessel in sanctification; for we are not our own, as the Paraclete of God and the ambassador of Christ, Paul the blessed, has cried out, because we have been bought with a price.
B: Therefore, let each one possess his vessel in sanctification, for we are not our own, as the advocate of God and the super-apostle Christ, Paul, cried out, ‘You were bought at a price.’
C: by which I sanctify myself, each one of us is a vessel; we are not for ourselves, as the intercessor of God and the ambassador of Christ, Paul the high priest, because of the honor of our king.

καὶ διά τούτο όφείλομεν δοξάσαι τόν θεόν έν τω σώαατι ήμών· ναός γάρ τού έν ήμϊν άγιου πνεύματός έστιν, ου άπό τον θεού έχομεν.
A: And for this reason we owe it to praise God in our body; for it is a temple of the Holy Spirit that is in us, which we have from God.
B: And for this reason, we must glorify God in our bodies, for our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit within us, which we have from God.
C: and for this reason we ought to glorify God in our house; for we are a temple of the Holy Spirit, which we have from God.

καὶ άνειμι λοιπόν τή διηγήσει μετά τὴν ύπόμνησιν καθ’ ειρμόν βαδιούμενος.
A: And I return, then, to the narrative, walking in order after the reminder.
B: Thus, having completed the narration, I proceed with the exhortation according to custom.”
C: and Anemi, therefore, recounted it after the reminder as he walked.

The value of this test is again distorted because so much of it is from the New Testament.

We’re getting something, but the quality isn’t great.  We got better from the modern Greek.  The inferiority of Google Translate (C) is noticeable.

I’ll try chapter 5, and see how we get on.

UPDATE (20 Jan 2024):  I tried combining this with the material from modern Greek.  This involved an awful lot of manual fiddling, because sentences end in different places.  I combined them using the Linux “paste” command, and prefixed each line with something identifiable.  Here are the results.  But I think this is just too time-consuming.

Original : 4. Ἀλλά τούτο, εί καὶ παρέλκον, πλήν εις έγκεντρισμον θείου φόβου διηγήσασθαι συνεώρακα, ϊνα μνησθώμεν καὶ φοβηθέντες έκφύγωμεν τήν λέγουσαν απειλήν
A (Bard AI) : But even though this is a digression, I have considered telling it for the sake of instilling the fear of God, so that we may remember and, being afraid, flee the threat that says,
B (ChatGPT3.5): “However, I have observed that even though it may be enticing, except for the purpose of instilling a divine fear, I narrate it simultaneously, so that we may remember and, being afraid, escape the threatening voice that says,
C (Google Tr) : 4. But this, too, is irrelevant, except in the concentration of divine fear, as you tell us, we pray and, being afraid, flee from the so-called threat
D (Modern Gk) : Διηγήθηκα, λοιπόν, σύντομα τούτο το γεγονός, αν και ήταν περιττό, προκειμένου να μπολιάσω στις ψυχές το θείο φόβο, για να θυμούμαστε με φόβο την απειλή (εν. του θεού) πως:
E (ChatGPT3.5): So, I recounted this event briefly, even though it was unnecessary, in order to instill divine fear into the souls, so that we may remember with fear the threat (of God) that:
F (Bing AI) : So I briefly narrated this event, although it was unnecessary, in order to instill divine fear in our souls, so that we may remember the threat (of God) that
G (ChatGPT4) : I have thus briefly recounted this event, though it was unnecessary, in order to instill divine fear into our souls. We must remember with fear the divine threat that

Original : «οὐ μὴ καταμείνη τό πνεύμά μου έν τοϊς άνθρώποις τούτοις διά τὸ είναι αυτούς σάρκας».
A (Bard AI) : “My Spirit will not remain in these people because they are flesh.”
B (ChatGPT3.5): ‘My spirit will not remain among these people because they are flesh.’
C (Google Tr) : “Do not let my spirit dwell in these people because they are flesh”.
D (Modern Gk) : “δεν θα παραμείνει πλέον το πνεύμα μου στους ανθρώπους τούτους, διότι κυριαρχούνται εξ ολοκλήρου από σαρκικά φρονήματα”17 και έτσι να γλιτώσουμε απ’ αυτήν.
E (ChatGPT3.5): ‘My spirit will no longer remain among these people, for they are entirely dominated by carnal thoughts’17 and thus to be saved from it.
F (Bing AI) : “my spirit will no longer remain with these people, because they are entirely dominated by carnal thoughts”17 and thus save ourselves from it.
G (ChatGPT4) : “my spirit shall no longer remain in these humans, for they are entirely dominated by carnal thoughts” (17) and thus save ourselves from it.

Original : είτα ευθύς ή σμικρότης τών ήμερων έπετιμήθη· φησίν γάρ·
A (Bard AI) : Then immediately the shortness of the days was rebuked; for it says,
B (ChatGPT3.5): Then, immediately, the brevity of their days was reproved; for it says,
C (Google Tr) : Behold the straightness or the smallness of the meek is despised;
D (Modern Gk) : Κι ευθύς αμέσως ορίστηκε ένα μικρό χρονικό διάστημα πριν την καταστροφή. Είπε, δηλαδή:
E (ChatGPT3.5): And immediately, a short period before the destruction was appointed. He said, namely:
F (Bing AI) : And immediately a small period of time was set before the destruction. He said, that is:
G (ChatGPT4) : A short period was immediately set before the destruction. It was stated:

Original : «έσονται δέ αἱ ήμέραι αύτών ἑκατὸν είκοσι έτη»
A (Bard AI) : “Their days will be one hundred and twenty years,”
B (ChatGPT3.5): ‘Their days will be one hundred and twenty years,’
C (Google Tr) : “And the days of these are a hundred and twenty years”
D (Modern Gk) : όλες οι υπολειπόμενες μέρες της ζωής τους θα περιορισθούν μόνο σε εκατόν είκοσι ετη”18.
E (ChatGPT3.5): ‘all the remaining days of their lives will be limited to only one hundred twenty years’18.
F (Bing AI) : all the remaining days of their lives will be limited to only one hundred and twenty years”18.
G (ChatGPT4) : “All their remaining days shall be limited to only one hundred and twenty years” (18).

Original : , και πάλιν·
A (Bard AI) : and again,
B (ChatGPT3.5): and again,
C (Google Tr) : , and again;
D (Modern Gk) : Και συμπλήρωσε:
E (ChatGPT3.5): And he added:
F (Bing AI) : And he added:
G (ChatGPT4) : And it was added:

Original : «κραυγή Σοδόμων και Γομόρρας άνέβη πρός με· καταβάς οϋν δψομαι, εί κατά τήν κραυγήν αύτών συντελοϋνται·
A (Bard AI) : “The cry of Sodom and Gomorrah has ascended to me; therefore I will go down and see whether they are acting according to their cry;
B (ChatGPT3.5): ‘The outcry of Sodom and Gomorrah has come up to me. I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me;
C (Google Tr) : “the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah went up to me; if I go down, I see, according to their cry they are done;
D (Modern Gk) : “κραυγές πολλές ανέρχονται από τα Σοδομα και τη Γομόρρα προς εμέ• οι αμαρτίες τους είναι πάρα πολύ μεγάλες. Θα κατεβώ, λοιπόν, εκεί, για να δω, αν πράγματι οι αμαρτίες τους είναι όπως οι κραυγές που ανέρχονται προς εμέ ή όχι.
E (ChatGPT3.5): ‘Many cries rise from Sodom and Gomorrah to me; their sins are very great. So I will go down there to see if their sins are as the cries that rise to me or not.
F (Bing AI) : “Many cries are coming from Sodom and Gomorrah to me; their sins are very great. So I will go down there to see if their sins are like the cries that are coming to me or not.
G (ChatGPT4) : “Many cries rise up from Sodom and Gomorrah to me; their sins are exceedingly great. I will go down there, then, to see if their sins are as the cries that rise up to me or not.

Original : εἰ δὲ μή, ‘ίνα γνω».
A (Bard AI) : if not, I will know.”
B (ChatGPT3.5): if not, I will know.’
C (Google Tr) : but if not, let me know.”
D (Modern Gk) : Οπωσδήποτε θέλω να μάθω!”19.
E (ChatGPT3.5): I definitely want to know!’19.
F (Bing AI) : I definitely want to know!”19.
G (ChatGPT4) : I definitely want to know!” (19).

Original : και γάρ έξ άρχής σαρκομανία καὶ τον παγκόσμιον κατακλυσμόν καὶ τόν Πενταπόλεως έμπρησμὸν έφειλκύσατο, ο’ια καὶ νΰν τήν διηγηθεϊσαν θεηλασίαν.
A (Bard AI) : For indeed from the beginning, carnality has brought about the worldwide flood and the burning of Pentapolis, and so now the theophany that has been described.
B (ChatGPT3.5): For from the beginning, he drew upon himself carnal indulgence, the worldwide deluge, and the burning of the Pentapolis, just as now he has brought upon himself the divine wrath that I have narrated.
C (Google Tr) : and since from the beginning sarcomania and the universal cataclysm and the Pentapolis fire were spared, which they did not tell the story of.
D (Modern Gk) : Πράγματι, εξ αρχής η σαρκολατρεία20 προκάλεσε και επέφερε τον παγκόσμιο κατακλυσμό και την πυρπόληση της Πεντάπολης21, όπως και τη μόλις διηγηθείσα θεϊκή τιμωρία (των Πατάρων).
E (ChatGPT3.5): Indeed, from the beginning, idolatry20 provoked and brought about the worldwide flood and the destruction of Pentapolis21, as well as the divine punishment (of the Patari).
F (Bing AI) : Indeed, from the beginning, idolatry20 caused and brought about the worldwide flood and the burning of Pentapolis21, as well as the divine punishment (of the Patari).
G (ChatGPT4) : Indeed, from the beginning, flesh worship (20) caused and brought about the global flood and the burning of the Pentapolis (21), as well as the divine punishment of the Patara just narrated.

Original : δι’ ὸ έν άγιασμώ τό εαυτού σκεύος έκαστος κτησώμεθα·
A (Bard AI) : Therefore, let each of us acquire his own vessel in sanctification;
B (ChatGPT3.5): Therefore, let each one possess his vessel in sanctification,
C (Google Tr) : by which I sanctify myself, each one of us is a vessel;
D (Modern Gk) : Για το λόγο αυτό ας διαφυλάττει ο καθένας το σώμα του ως σκεύος αγιασμού’2.
E (ChatGPT3.5): For this reason, let everyone preserve his body as a vessel of sanctification.
F (Bing AI) : For this reason, let everyone preserve his body as a vessel of sanctification’2.
G (ChatGPT4) : For this reason, let each one keep his body as a vessel of sanctification (22).

Original : ούκ έσμέν γάρ εαυτών, ώς ό παρακλήτωρ θεού καὶ ύπερπρεσβενων Χριστού Παύλος ό ύιβηλός κέκραγεν, έπειδή τιμῆς ήγοράσΟημεν.
A (Bard AI) : for we are not our own, as the Paraclete of God and the ambassador of Christ, Paul the blessed, has cried out, because we have been bought with a price.
B (ChatGPT3.5): for we are not our own, as the advocate of God and the super-apostle Christ, Paul, cried out, ‘You were bought at a price.’
C (Google Tr) : we are not for ourselves, as the intercessor of God and the ambassador of Christ, Paul the high priest, because of the honor of our king.
D (Modern Gk) : Δεν ανήκουμε στον εαυτό μας, όπως έντονα διακήρυττε ο μέγας Παύλος, αυτός που διαρκώς ικέτευε τον θεό και παρακαλούσε συνεχώς τον Χριστό, γιατί έχουμε εξαγορασθεί με πολύτιμο τίμημα, το αίμα του Χριστού.
E (ChatGPT3.5): We do not belong to ourselves, as the great Paul strongly proclaimed, he who constantly implored God and continually besought Christ because we have been redeemed with a precious ransom, the blood of Christ.
F (Bing AI) : We do not belong to ourselves, as the great Paul strongly declared, he who constantly implored God and continuously prayed to Christ, because we have been redeemed with a precious price, the blood of Christ.
G (ChatGPT4) : We do not belong to ourselves, as the great Paul fervently proclaimed, who constantly supplicated God and continuously implored Christ, for we have been bought with a precious price, the blood of Christ.

Original : καὶ διά τούτο όφείλομεν δοξάσαι τόν θεόν έν τω σώαατι ήμών· ναός γάρ τού έν ήμϊν άγιου πνεύματός έστιν, ου άπό τον θεού έχομεν.
A (Bard AI) : And for this reason we owe it to praise God in our body; for it is a temple of the Holy Spirit that is in us, which we have from God.
B (ChatGPT3.5): And for this reason, we must glorify God in our bodies, for our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit within us, which we have from God.
C (Google Tr) : and for this reason we ought to glorify God in our house; for we are a temple of the Holy Spirit, which we have from God.
D (Modern Gk) : Γι’ αυτό και οφείλουμε να δοξάσουμε τον θεό με το σώμα μας, χωρίς να το μολύνουμε• γιατί είναι ναός του Αγίου Πνεύματος που κατοικεί μέσα μας, και το οποίο έχουμε λάβει από τον θεό23.
E (ChatGPT3.5): Therefore, we must glorify God with our bodies without defiling them, for it is the temple of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us, which we have received from God23.
F (Bing AI) : Therefore, we must glorify God with our body, without defiling it; because it is the temple of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us, and which we have received from God23.
G (ChatGPT4) : Therefore, we owe it to glorify God with our body, without defiling it; for it is the temple of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, which we have received from God (23).

Original : καὶ άνειμι λοιπόν τή διηγήσει μετά τὴν ύπόμνησιν καθ’ ειρμόν βαδιούμενος.
A (Bard AI) : And I return, then, to the narrative, walking in order after the reminder.
B (ChatGPT3.5): Thus, having completed the narration, I proceed with the exhortation according to custom.”
C (Google Tr) : and Anemi, therefore, recounted it after the reminder as he walked.
D (Modern Gk) : Προχωρώ, λοιπόν, μετά την υπόμνηση των παραπάνω στη διήγηση, και ολόγος μου θα έχει ως εξής:
E (ChatGPT3.5): I proceed, therefore, after the reminder of the above in the narrative, and my discourse will be as follows:
F (Bing AI) : So, after the above reminder, I proceed with the narrative, and my speech will be as follows:
G (ChatGPT4) : I proceed, therefore, after reminding the above in the narration, and my speech will be as follows:

Hmm.

Using AI and a dictionary, let’s try out the translation approach from my last post on a further chapter of this modern Greek translation of the Life of St Nicholas by Methodius.  Here’s the text, hopefully with few OCR errors:

4. Διηγήθηκα, λοιπόν, σύντομα τούτο το γεγονός, αν και ήταν περιττό, προκειμένου να μπολιάσω στις ψυχές το θείο φόβο, για να θυμούμαστε με φόβο την απειλή (εν. του θεού) πως: “δεν θα παραμείνει πλέον το πνεύμα μου στους ανθρώπους τούτους, διότι κυριαρχούνται εξ ολοκλήρου από σαρκικά φρονήματα”17 και έτσι να γλιτώσουμε απ’ αυτήν. Κι ευθύς αμέσως ορίστηκε ένα μικρό χρονικό διάστημα πριν την καταστροφή. Είπε, δηλαδή: όλες οι υπολειπόμενες μέρες της ζωής τους θα περιορισθούν μόνο σε εκατόν είκοσι ετη”18. Και συμπλήρωσε: “κραυγές πολλές ανέρχονται από τα Σοδομα και τη Γομόρρα προς εμέ• οι αμαρτίες τους είναι πάρα πολύ μεγάλες. Θα κατεβώ, λοιπόν, εκεί, για να δω, αν πράγματι οι αμαρτίες τους είναι όπως οι κραυγές που ανέρχονται προς εμέ ή όχι. Οπωσδήποτε θέλω να μάθω!”19. Πράγματι, εξ αρχής η σαρκολατρεία20 προκάλεσε και επέφερε τον παγκόσμιο κατακλυσμό και την πυρπόληση της Πεντάπολης21, όπως και τη μόλις διηγηθείσα θεϊκή τιμωρία (των Πατάρων). Για το λόγο αυτό ας διαφυλάττει ο καθένας το σώμα του ως σκεύος αγιασμού’2. Δεν ανήκουμε στον εαυτό μας, όπως έντονα διακήρυττε ο μέγας Παύλος, αυτός που διαρκώς ικέτευε τον θεό και παρακαλούσε συνεχώς τον Χριστό, γιατί έχουμε εξαγορασθεί με πολύτιμο τίμημα, το αίμα του Χριστού. Γι’ αυτό και οφείλουμε να δοξάσουμε τον θεό με το σώμα μας, χωρίς να το μολύνουμε• γιατί είναι ναός του Αγίου Πνεύματος που κατοικεί μέσα μας, και το οποίο έχουμε λάβει από τον θεό23. Προχωρώ, λοιπόν, μετά την υπόμνηση των παραπάνω στη διήγηση, και ολόγος μου θα έχει ως εξής:

Next, the pre-AI Google Translate output:

4. Therefore, I briefly related this event, although it was unnecessary, in order to instill in souls the divine fear, so that we remember with fear the threat (of God) that: “my spirit will no longer remain among men these, because they are completely dominated by carnal thoughts”17 and thus escape from it. And right away a short period of time was set before the disaster. He said, in other words: all the remaining days of their lives will be limited to only one hundred and twenty years.”18 And he added: “many cries go up from Sodom and Gomorrah to me; their sins are very great. I will therefore come down there, to see whether their sins are really like the cries that come up to me or not. I certainly want to know!”19 Indeed, from the beginning flesh worship20 caused and brought about the global flood and the burning of the Pentapolis21, just as the just-narrated divine punishment (of the Patras). For this reason let each one guard his body as a vessel of sanctification’2. We do not belong to ourselves, as the great Paul strongly proclaimed, he who constantly begged God and constantly begged him Christ, for we have been redeemed with a precious price, the blood of Christ. Therefore we ought to glorify God with our body, without defiling it; for it is a temple of the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, and which we have received from the god23. So, after reminding the above, I proceed to the narration, and my thesis will be as follows:

Now time for AI.  I asked “Can you translate something for me from modern Greek into English.”  The ChatGPT 3.5 output using a free account:

The narrator recounted, therefore, briefly this event, although it was unnecessary, in order to instill divine fear into the souls, so that we may remember with fear the threat (of God) that: “My spirit will no longer remain among these people, for they are entirely dominated by carnal thoughts”17 and thus to be saved from it. And immediately a small period before the destruction was appointed. He said, namely: “all the remaining days of their lives will be limited to one hundred twenty years”18. And he added, “Many cries rise from Sodom and Gomorrah to me; their sins are very great. So I will go down there to see if their sins are as the cries that rise to me or not. I definitely want to know!”19. Indeed, from the beginning, idolatry20 provoked and brought about the worldwide flood and the destruction of Pentapolis21, as well as the divine punishment (of the Patari). For this reason, let everyone preserve his body as a vessel of sanctification. We do not belong to ourselves, as the great Paul strongly proclaimed, he who constantly implored God and continually besought Christ, because we have been redeemed with a precious ransom, the blood of Christ. Therefore, we must glorify God with our bodies without defiling them, for it is the temple of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us, which we have received from God23. I proceed, therefore, after the reminder of the above in the narrative, and my discourse will be as follows:

That seemed a bit odd, so I tried again:

So, I recounted this event briefly, even though it was unnecessary, in order to instill divine fear into the souls, so that we may remember with fear the threat (of God) that: ‘My spirit will no longer remain among these people, for they are entirely dominated by carnal thoughts’17 and thus to be saved from it. And immediately, a short period before the destruction was appointed. He said, namely: ‘all the remaining days of their lives will be limited to only one hundred twenty years’18. And he added: ‘Many cries rise from Sodom and Gomorrah to me; their sins are very great. So I will go down there to see if their sins are as the cries that rise to me or not. I definitely want to know!’19. Indeed, from the beginning, idolatry20 provoked and brought about the worldwide flood and the destruction of Pentapolis21, as well as the divine punishment (of the Patari). For this reason, let everyone preserve his body as a vessel of sanctification. We do not belong to ourselves, as the great Paul strongly proclaimed, he who constantly implored God and continually besought Christ because we have been redeemed with a precious ransom, the blood of Christ. Therefore, we must glorify God with our bodies without defiling them, for it is the temple of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us, which we have received from God23. I proceed, therefore, after the reminder of the above in the narrative, and my discourse will be as follows:

Now Bing CoPilot:

Well, this chapter is studded with quotations from scripture, so that skews things a bit.  One would expect scripture to be handled OK by pretty much any system.

Now again there are odd words.  σαρκολατρεία is rendered as “flesh worship” by Google Translate, and “idolatry” by AI.  WordReference.com doesn’t know the word.  Hum.

But what strikes me most here is that I need to compare closely the various different versions of text and translation.  Doing it on a paragraph is cumbersome.  I need to split the text into sentences, and interleave the various versions.

It’s also rather cumbersome using the websites to access ChatGPT.  There is a command-line interface.

I need to upgrade my tools before I do any more on this.

In my last two posts here and here, I looked at AI and other translations of the following passage from Ch. Stergioulis’ modern Greek translation of the “Life of St Nicholas” by Methodius, Archbishop of Constantinople (the “Methodius ad Theodorum”:

3. Καταγόταν ο Νικόλαος από τα Πάταρα, πόλη της επαρχίας των Λυκίων, η οποία εκείνη την εποχή (του αγίου Νικολάου) είχε αρκετούς κατοίκους. Τώρα όμως μοιάζει περισσότερο με κώμη παρά με πόλη¹⁴. Κι αυτό παθαίνουν πολυτρόπως οι πόλεις-παρακμάζουν και οι κάτοικοί τους μεταναστεύουν-εξαιτίας των αμέτρητων κριμάτων τους έναντι του θεού. Έτσι λοιπόν κατανοούμε και αυτό που συνηθίζουμε να γράφουμε, ότι δηλαδή οι πόλεις τιμωρούνται για τις αμαρτίες των κατοίκων τους¹⁵. Βρίσκεται δηλαδή, εκεί κοντά τόπος πεδινός, σχισμένος στα δύο, σαν ξεσχισμένο ιμάτιο. Κι από το ρήγμα που έχει δημιουργηθεί, φαίνεται να αναδύεται, την ημέρα, καυτός ατμός, ενώ τη νύχτα ξεπηδά σαν από χάλκινο καμίνι φλογώδης καπνός¹⁶. Και καίει το χέρι όποιου τολμά να το ακουμπήσει, χωρίς όμως να του το κατατρώγει αλλά και την σάρκα, όπως θα γινόταν στην περίπτωση που κάποιος απλώνει το χέρι του στη φωτιά• είναι όμως απεικόνιση και προοίμιο, με μικρή ομοιότητα, του αιωνίου πυρός. Και ευρισκόμενοι σε απορία με το φαινόμενο οι μεγαλύτεροι σε ηλικία μετέφεραν από γενιά σε γενιά, ο κάθε πατέρας στο παιδί του, (όπως μας διασώζεται ο άγραφος πλην αληθινός τούτος λόγος), ότι εξαιτίας της ακολασίας και της σαρκολαγνείας των κατοίκων της η θεία δίκη κατεδίκασε τούτη τη γη στο φρικτό αυτό θέαμα, για να αποτρέψει την επι-στροφή τους στο μέρος αυτό.

Today I went back to the same sites, to see what came out.  First I asked ChatGPT 3.5, “Can you translate something from modern Greek to English”, and when it said yes, pasted in the above text:

Nicholas originated from Patara, a city in the province of Lycia, which at that time (of Saint Nicholas) had several inhabitants. However, now it resembles more of a village than a city. This is a fate suffered in various ways by cities—they decline, and their inhabitants migrate—due to their countless sins against God. Therefore, we understand what we commonly write, that is, cities are punished for the sins of their residents.

Nearby, there is a flat place, split in two, like a torn garment. From the rift that has been created, hot steam seems to emerge during the day, while at night it rises like fiery smoke from a bronze furnace. And it burns the hand of anyone who dares to touch it, without, however, consuming it as well as the flesh, as would happen if someone were to extend their hand into a fire. It is, however, a representation and prelude, with little resemblance, to the eternal fire.

In awe of this phenomenon, the older ones passed down from generation to generation, each father to his child (as this unwritten but true account has been preserved for us), that due to the immodesty and sensuality of its inhabitants, divine justice condemned this land to this dreadful spectacle to prevent their return to this place.

This is different to the output I got two days ago.  Mostly it is very similar, and certainly impressive.  In a couple of places, it isn’t as good.  In a couple of places it’s a bit better.

Next, I tried using Bing CoPilot “with GPT-4”:

3.  Nikolaos originated from Pataras, a city in the province of Lycia, which at that time (of Saint Nicholas) had many inhabitants. Now, however, it looks more like a village than a city. And this is what happens to cities – they decline and their inhabitants emigrate – because of their countless sins against God. Therefore, we understand what we are used to writing, that is, that cities are punished for the sins of their inhabitants. There is a nearby flat place, split in two like a torn garment. And from the rift that has been created, hot steam appears during the day, while at night fiery smoke emerges like from a copper furnace. And it burns the hand of anyone who dares to touch it, but without consuming it or the flesh, as would happen if someone were to put their hand in fire. It is, however, a depiction and a prelude, with little similarity, of the eternal fire. And the older ones, puzzled by the phenomenon, passed down from generation to generation, each father to his child (as this unwritten but true story is preserved), that because of the debauchery and carnality of its inhabitants, divine justice condemned this land to this terrible spectacle, to prevent their return to this place.

This is almost the same as I got in my first post.  But one good feature of Bing AI is that it indicates the websites that it is using:

I imagine that this is concealed by other sites, in case they had to pay royalties.

It does feel creepy that the same input on different days produces different output from the same site.  I know that Google Translate could be like that.  But even so… it feels flaky.

All the same, there’s no doubt that AI is producing better results than Google Translate or DeepL.  I do think that we then need to look up variable words and establish their meaning ourselves.

Doing so could certainly be easier. Remember that I know no modern Greek at all; all of this is a way to use online tools.

One bit that varies is the “flat place” or “low lying place” or “plain”.  Looking at Google Translate, I see this preserves the footnote numbers, which helps us work out whereabout in the Greek text this is.  It’s just after footnote 15:

inhabitants15. In other words, there is a plain nearby, torn in two, like a torn garment.

This must be “τόπος πεδινός”, “topos pedinos”.  Even I know “topos” must be a “place”, if only thanks to Tales from Topographic Oceans.  So “pedinos” is our word of not-quite certain meaning.

Going to Lexilogos and copying the word, and clicking on WordReference gives us this page.

This does indeed actually explain the problem – plains are flat and are found in the lowlands, hence the various different meanings. I hate that this is an online-only tool – what if the web goes down? – but it’s something.

Likewise I get αρκετούς – “several inhabitants”?, and plug this in.  Taking off letters from the end, it asks if I mean αρκετός – I know enough Greek to agree – and tells me that it means enough, ample, plenty, sufficient.  I.e. “lots”, which is what I would expect.  Likewise “διασώζεται” also works, once you remove a few letters to get the base verb, meaning “save, rescue”, i.e. “preserve”.

So maybe this is how we use these tools to make a translation:

1. Use Google Translate on the modern Greek to get a general idea of what each sentence means, and a few signposts so I can move around the Greek text.
2. Bang the Greek into ChatGPT to get a better translation.  Maybe do the same with Bing AI, if it’s working.
3. Compare the three, and look for oddities.
4. Find the actual modern Greek word for each oddity, look it up in WordReference.com, and see if this can resolve it.  (Remembering, if using Chrome, to force it NOT to translate the page into Engish).

That has the look of a way to do the translation. It’s cumbersome.  Any clues about Greek will help mightily.  But it really requires very little knowledge, and you can produce a respectable translation, I think.

I will try it out with another chapter of Methodius ad Theodorum.

UPDATE (17 Jan 2024): Much more in the comments below.